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20 March 2006 @ 06:26 pm
Poll on Narnia Incest  
I am currently in the process of writing an essay on incest in the Narnia fandom, and I'm looking for opinions outside of my own to incorporate into my essay, so as to fairly represent all points of view. This is probably the greatest topic of contention within the fandom, so it would be wonderful to receive a diverse array of perspectives on it. Just remember to be respectful in your responses.

Anyone who has something to say on the topic of incest, I beg you to comment to this post. I also have a poll below that addresses the basics of the issue, and I hope as many people will vote in it as possible. (All questions are in check box format because people sometimes have complicated reasons/opinions behind things, but please try to check only the ones that really apply to you — I know that sometimes I check multiple things because they apply a tiny bit, but not much. If that's your situation, a comment would be awesome, and probably a better way of expressing yourself that will also keep the statistics more accurate.)

Also: This is not intended to reflect your attitude toward incest in real life, merely in terms of Narnia fanfiction. However, if you want to comment on RL vs. Narnia, feel free — it's all interesting to me.

Poll #694805 Opinions on Narnia Incest

What is your take on incest?

I love it.
90(25.7%)
I don't have anything against it, but I don't read it much.
21(6.0%)
I read it, but sometimes it disturbs me.
34(9.7%)
I don't mind it in Narnia, but it squicks me in other fandoms.
29(8.3%)
I find it immoral.
58(16.6%)
I don't find it immoral, but it's disgusting.
24(6.9%)
I don't have a preference.
7(2.0%)
Other (please comment)
15(4.3%)

If you enjoy incest, why?

The incestuous nature of it appeals to me.
18(5.6%)
I like the characters and I enjoy putting them together in relationships; it has nothing to do with the fact that they're siblings.
131(41.1%)
They're practically the only characters you can put together.
11(3.4%)
I don't enjoy incest.
83(26.0%)
Other (please comment)
10(3.1%)

If you dislike it, why?

It goes against my morals.
10(3.4%)
It perverts Lewis's ideals and his world.
18(6.2%)
It's simply disturbing.
35(12.0%)
I don't dislike it.
144(49.5%)
Other (please comment)
11(3.8%)


Anyone who would like to comment and express their opinions further will be greatly adored. I request that you PLEASE specify in your comment whether or not I may quote you if I so desire, and if you don't mind being quoted, whether you would prefer to remain anonymous or whether I may quote you by name. It creates less hassle for me in the future. Thank you.
 
 
 
Nikki: (Fujin) Emotionalshanaqui on March 21st, 2006 12:33 am (UTC)
If you enjoy incest, why?

I replied other, so here's my reply.

I like the situation created, the issues, the tensions, the little things that make it work or make it so dysfunctional it shouldn't be happening.
Aelihinter on March 21st, 2006 12:35 am (UTC)
If I should feel the urge to quote you on that, may I? And if I may, would you prefer to be anonymous or may I give your name?
(no subject) - shanaqui on March 21st, 2006 12:40 am (UTC) (Expand)
so hot i turned my gay brother straight: kyougo ~ just a phasemefiant on March 21st, 2006 12:37 am (UTC)
I have to say that incest is definitely a kink of mine in writing, but I have less interest in Narniacest than I do in incest in other fandoms - purely because I became a Narnia fan at age seven. No, this doesn't stop me writing Edmund/Eustace or Edmund/Susan, but I figure it's something to take into account?
Aeli: Edmundhinter on March 21st, 2006 12:39 am (UTC)
Of course; thank you very much. If I want to refer to your comment in my essay, may I? And if I do, would you prefer to be mentioned by name or remain anonymous?
(no subject) - mefiant on March 21st, 2006 12:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - zig6 on March 21st, 2006 02:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - narnianqueen119 on June 23rd, 2006 08:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - napolde on March 21st, 2006 12:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hinter on March 21st, 2006 12:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - napolde on March 21st, 2006 01:07 am (UTC) (Expand)
Tabbywhy_me_why_not on March 21st, 2006 12:40 am (UTC)
I have read a couple incest fics in the Narnia fandom, and in other fandoms as well, but in the Narnia fandom it kinda disturbs me on some level b/c of the sibling relationship that the Pevensies seem to have and the fact that I have siblings like that. Personally, I think the sibling dynamics of the Pevensies provide enough fodder for gen fic and tend to stick to that when reading or searching out Narnia fics to read. The world that CS Lewis created also seems to make me feel incest is wrong there. I have read incest in other fandoms (namely Twincest in the HP fandom and Wincest in the Supernatural fandom), but there is a dynamic between the characters there which is different than the way I view the Narnian characters. If that makes sense. Which, really, it doesn't b/c there are so many more characters available to play with in the other fandoms and the Narnian fandom is pretty limited, unless you wanna branch off into beastiality or some other such things that people would object to just as much as they object to the incest. That said, though, if an author can make any story, no matter how disturbing, believable on some level, I would read it. Maybe I just don't like PWP incest?

Um, yeah, so I found you via narnia_fans, and if you wanna quote any of my ramblings, feel free to do so by name. Good luck on your essay!
Ó mo Dhia! Tá an tua i mo cheann!: Doctor Whochicafrom3 on March 21st, 2006 12:41 am (UTC)
I don't mind incest in general, and there are other fandoms where I like incestuous pairings.

I just don't like it in Narnia for some reason. Possibly because there's so much of it, and so little of it is done well--I just lose taste for it all together.
Aelihinter on March 21st, 2006 12:48 am (UTC)
If I should feel the urge to quote you on that, may I? And if I may, would you prefer to be anonymous or may I give your name?
(no subject) - chicafrom3 on March 21st, 2006 12:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
suborbitalsuborbital on March 21st, 2006 12:42 am (UTC)
I put other so I will answer accordingly here. I don't 'love' it per se. What I do love though is Peter/Edmund being together, in spite of the fact they're brothers, not because of it. And it's not like they can have children. But in general terms, I'm not sure what my stance is. I'm not an advocate, but my general thinking is if it's based on a love that's hard to deny and impossible to ignore, then so be it. As far as the Narnia fandom, I'm pretty firm on Peter/Ed, but also Peter/Susan seems pretty realisitic, once again, in spite of, not because of, but moreso because they tend to take maternal/paternal roles over the other two and as such tend to act like a married couple anyway. Another thing is there aren't a whole lot of people in Narnia and the Golden Age was awfully long.
Aelihinter on March 21st, 2006 12:48 am (UTC)
If I should feel the urge to quote you on that, may I? And if I may, would you prefer to be anonymous or may I give your name?
(no subject) - suborbital on March 21st, 2006 12:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nimoloth on March 21st, 2006 12:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Ninecloudednine on March 21st, 2006 12:50 am (UTC)
I don't like incest between siblings (or parent/child), but I don't mind between cousins. I can't explain that. I think the sibling bond is too important to me to screw up like that. It probably is a culturally ingrained thing, actually.

I do read some sibling incest in the Narnia fandom when I wouldn't in any other fandom, but that's only because there is so much of it written. It's hard to avoid it. I still don't like it though - I have to forget the characters aren't related to enjoy it at all.

(And yes, feel free to quote me.)
(Deleted comment)
Aelihinter on March 21st, 2006 12:53 am (UTC)
If I should feel the urge to quote you on that, may I? And if I may, would you prefer to be anonymous or may I give your name?
apassionathy on March 21st, 2006 12:53 am (UTC)
I picked 'other' because while I enjoy reading incest, I don't partake in it. I like it, in stories. Not to say I don't approve of real-life incest, but as I have never done anything incestuous I can not give a real answer.

The reason I (for the most part) like incest is typically because of the characters, the fact that there are related give them a much deeper past/connection. Also, quite frankly, incest can be kinky, but that doesn't mean I randomly throw together siblings for my amusment. There has to be a reason beyond, incest is hot, for me to ship a pairing.
Aelihinter on March 21st, 2006 12:54 am (UTC)
If I should feel the urge to quote you on that, may I? And if I may, would you prefer to be anonymous or may I give your name?
(no subject) - apassionathy on March 21st, 2006 12:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
Caitlin: Anna with a big smileimperativa on March 21st, 2006 12:54 am (UTC)
See now, I don't think it's right in real life. I mean I'm not going to have a relationship with my sisters or anything..lol.

But I just like reading it. Narnia especially. Peter/Susan just seems so...interestingly good :O
Aelihinter on March 21st, 2006 12:54 am (UTC)
If I should feel the urge to quote you on that, may I? And if I may, would you prefer to be anonymous or may I give your name?
(no subject) - imperativa on March 21st, 2006 01:03 am (UTC) (Expand)
Becky: Narnia- Peter(Colorful)vanitykidman on March 21st, 2006 12:56 am (UTC)
I'm personally not an incest fan in any fandom.

It is the one cultural taboo that the world has as a whole, and that says alot about how most people view incest if every cultural in the world as a negative connotation about it(I had a whole Anthropology class on it last year, that was fun)

I tend to find incest in the Narnia Fandom as being a sign of laziness(Not alway, but it can be) I don't know how many people I've talk with who try to explain away the incest as "Well there arn't any other humans arround so they have to . . ." And that shows they didn't read the books because for one, there are plenty of humans running arround, and two . . .ummm dryaids?!?!?!

I just find it gut-wrenchingly(sp?), shockingly wrong, and I don't know how else to say it. And incest in the Narnia fandom bothers me more than other fandoms mostly because the relationships between the siblings are so pure and that something like incest would be the worst thing that could happen to them. I just don't feel that it would even be believable in the family dynamics that Lewis created.

Hope that helps sorry that I rambled, great idea for a paper.
Aelihinter on March 21st, 2006 01:48 am (UTC)
If I should feel the urge to quote you on any of that, may I? And if I may, would you prefer to be anonymous or may I give your name?
(no subject) - vanitykidman on March 21st, 2006 06:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - puddleduck3 on March 21st, 2006 04:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - puddleduck3 on March 21st, 2006 04:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lawofar18 on March 21st, 2006 09:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - angel_gidget on May 2nd, 2006 05:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Varda: I am half sick of shadows --ithilelentari on March 21st, 2006 12:59 am (UTC)
In other fandoms (excepting LoTR), I don't have as strong a reaction to incest-fic -- it still squicks me, but I ignore it for the most part. Narnia, though... yeesh. Not only do I feel that it perverts Lewis's world and worldview, I've loved Narnia since I was three. In this particular fandom, it disgusts me and feels like people are dirtying a cherished part of my childhood.

This isn't in any way a cool-headed look at merits of the genre, it's just my entirely visceral $0.02. *shrug*
Aelihinter on March 21st, 2006 01:48 am (UTC)
If I should feel the urge to quote you on any of that, may I? And if I may, would you prefer to be anonymous or may I give your name?
(no subject) - ithilelentari on March 21st, 2006 01:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
Dino-Manparasaurolophus on March 21st, 2006 01:01 am (UTC)
Followed here from the narniadiscuss group.

Something to keep in mind is that every major fandom out there has incest-shippers. Big ones that come to mind are Full Metal Alchemist (Ed and Al), Firefly (Simon and River), and Naruto (Neji and Hinata). It's not limited to the Narnia stories.

Another thing is that The Chronicles of Narnia is a children's series. The main characters aren't meant to have relationships. There -are- plenty of relationships throughout the series, just not the main characters. Mr. and Mrs. Beaver. Caspian and his wife. Cor and Aravis (a personal favorite of mine). Eustace and Jill is the closest thing there is to a main character relationship, but even then, there wasn't much of one. They were still the age where boys are gross and girls have cooties.
Aelihinter on March 21st, 2006 01:48 am (UTC)
If I should feel the urge to quote you on any of that, may I? And if I may, would you prefer to be anonymous or may I give your name?
(no subject) - parasaurolophus on March 21st, 2006 05:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on March 21st, 2006 01:13 am (UTC)
I think it depends on how much you value the author's intent of the original work. Lewis, as a Christian, would have never imagined his characters that way (one can reasonably surmount).
「 JL 」: HP_Twincestjlarinda on March 21st, 2006 01:17 am (UTC)
If you enjoy incest, why?

Seeing how I put the "other" option...
I like incest in lots of fandoms... It's because of many reasons. It's a kink, but also I like it cause it instantly makes the relationship dysfunctional and something to hide from most people, and reading about how they solve that is nice (The whole "it's wrong" thing is mainly why it's a kink)... Also, not every sibling couple will work. I like sibling couples where both parts are extremely attached to each other, or have an unique, very, very close relationship with each other. Like, say, Edward and Alphonse from FMA, Fred and George from HP, etc.
Aelihinter on March 21st, 2006 01:48 am (UTC)
If I should feel the urge to quote you on any of that, may I? And if I may, would you prefer to be anonymous or may I give your name?
Genghis Katkat8cha on March 21st, 2006 01:24 am (UTC)
If you enjoy incest, why?

Well... a lot of the times it's a love of the dynamic between characters. And when dealing with incest the brothersister/parent/child thing adds an extra (usually darker) tone. Incestuous hints, or relationships also provide interesting character analysis. Usually showing why a character turned out a certain way. (You'll notice quite a bit of incest is related to characters that have a golden child and a prodigal child)
Aelihinter on March 21st, 2006 01:49 am (UTC)
If I should feel the urge to quote you on any of that, may I? And if I may, would you prefer to be anonymous or may I give your name?
(no subject) - kat8cha on March 21st, 2006 03:05 am (UTC) (Expand)
swlotr_nerd on March 21st, 2006 01:26 am (UTC)
If you dislike it, why?

I chose the other option. I liek reading it because I'm a P/S shipper and I like it because they look good together and people write the fics so well. In real life, I wouldn't particulary support it. Well, it just seems wrong. If the characters aren't actually real, then that isn't such a big deal to me. Thanks for making the poll, and there's my comment!!
Aelihinter on March 21st, 2006 01:49 am (UTC)
If I should feel the urge to quote you on any of that, may I? And if I may, would you prefer to be anonymous or may I give your name?
(no subject) - swlotr_nerd on March 22nd, 2006 12:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
mindo: by LiYansasorion on March 21st, 2006 01:47 am (UTC)
Personally, I don't read much incest because it strikes me as an issue that shouldn't be treated lightly, and many takes on siblingcest are such. Incest in most cultures is taboo, and no, it is not something treated with cotton candy and pink sparkles.

In the Narnia fandom, while I'd read a well-written Peter/Edmund, I would also much rather see fiction written about other characters just as complex and interesting as them. The Narnian fandom needs to diversify beyond just incest.

And feel free to quote me if you need to. I go by sasorion.
a prince in a far away land: narnia : kings and queensfar_from_gondor on March 21st, 2006 01:53 am (UTC)
I find incest in the Narnian fandom to be very, very odd. The characters all so young, so much emphasis is put on their innocence, and their dynamic to me has felt platonic; I have read and enjoyed (and written) Lord of the Rings incest, however. Perhaps the untouched nature (I read Boromir/Faramir and Eomer/Theodred, none of whom are seen together in any of the books) of those dynamics leads more room for interpretation than I find in Lewis.

But I in general don't care for anything rated stronger than PG-13, and romanticfluff is low on my list of interesting reads; the relationships of the Pevensies interest me more as siblings and friends than as lovers. Perhaps because the Narnians were born in England, incest seems like it would be less well-recieved by the Pevensies themselves than it might in some other setting where such a thing might be neccisary as a provision to keep royal bloodlines alive. Added to the fact that except for sparing hints at Susan having many admirers and vague subtext about Caspian and Lucy, it seems like in the books, romance and crushes do not have a large place in the Pevensies' own minds.
Aelihinter on March 21st, 2006 01:54 am (UTC)
If I should feel the urge to quote you on any of that, may I? And if I may, would you prefer to be anonymous or may I give your name?
(no subject) - far_from_gondor on March 21st, 2006 01:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
thesquirrelette on March 21st, 2006 02:03 am (UTC)
The reason for me choosing "other" on the first question was that I do love it (now that I think of it, I probably should have checked that) in the fiction world, but in the real world not so much. I think this is mainly because the characters aren't real, therefore can't truely be doing anything wrong.

For question two, it is true that in Narnia, there are only so many humans you can put together, and they just so happen to be related, but I also enjoy it in other fandoms. I like reading incest because the fact that they are siblings adds to the emotion of the story. The struggle the character goes through to try to understand why or how he/she could love his/her brother/sister can cover so many feelings when written well.
The smutty-ness isn't too bad, either.
Serafina: COTW_piek ric_soft_princessserafina20 on March 21st, 2006 02:34 am (UTC)
Ever since I was a kid, I beleived Peter and Susan would marry and Edmund and Lucy. It seemed to fit: two kings, two queens,and no outsiders. But, for it to work for me, it must start in Narnia. The situation presents itself perfectly so it does work without it having the same negative (re psychologically damaging) effects and connotations as they do in the real world.
(Anonymous) on March 21st, 2006 02:45 am (UTC)
Although I occasionally like incest stories, I find the kids to be too young at first in Narnia, and just can't picture them in incestuous relationships. They're just too innocent. It probably doesn't help that I first read the stories when I was about the age of the kids.
katsumi_chan: peter and susankatsumi_chan on March 21st, 2006 02:45 am (UTC)
For me, I don't feel like incest is a kink. I know that for some people incest is their kink, and no matter what fandom they're in they'll support the incest in that fandom. Narnia is really the only fandom I can think of where I really ship incest, although I do read and squee at some other stuff.

The thing about Narnia is that if you look for romantic relationships in everything, with Narnia there's simply no other way to go. Most people are only familiar with LWW, which means Caspian pairings are out of the pickings, and it seems like extreme age differences squick people more than incest (though I could be wrong), so the Pevensie family love gets spread around. In some cases, I feel like that's sort of...I don't know, kind of juvenile, pairing people for the sake of having romantic relationships in a story, because stories can live without romantic relationships. But with Narnia, for me at least, it's different. It really helps that these four are in a whole different world, almost completely reborn from who they were previously, in a world where the author of fanfic has considerable freedom to make up its own rules regarding what is considered scandalous behavior. Plus, I find the four children so fascinating and their dynamics so perfect, really fitting for both romantic, friendly and brother/sisterly relationships. For me, it's not so much the drama of having two siblings in love, but the drama of having such complex people in love.

...wow, I'm tired, and I'm not sure that made sense. :P
gemkazoni: Lucygemkazoni on March 21st, 2006 03:58 am (UTC)
I am against incest. And yet, I can tolerate it here. Why is that?

Because, in my humble opinion, Narnia is one of the only fandoms that incest can work, at least in that time period in TLtWatW where they were growing up in Narnia. These children are in a entirely different world from their own - one where the same rules and limits they once lived with no longer exist. In due time, they forgot their old limitations and became a part of a world that is very open and loving and magical, and anything is possible. Yes, I do think it plausible that Peter and Susan (as an example) could form a romantic relationship in Narnia - because it may not be considered wrong there; he is a King and she is a Queen and perhaps they believe that is the way things are meant to be. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Of course, this leads to incredible dynamics when they return to the real world, which are always my favorite kind of fanfics - having to deal with being back in a world where it is wrong from them to be in love.

Yes, I am against incest. Yes, I don't necessarily support it in this fandom. But I can understand it here.
Capegiocapegio on March 21st, 2006 04:50 am (UTC)
I was originally squicked by incest; before I was sucked into the Narnia fandom I had never even considered it as something I could grow to like. My take on incest is now pretty much the same as my take on general romance fics - if it's well done, and if the characters fit plausibly together, what's the fuss about? I'm not into loveless smut between my lovely Pevensie darlings, but if someone decides to write them in love, sometimes that can be just that much more beautiful than the love between siblings. Really, sometimes the fact that they've had a lifelong relationship without romance makes the eventual outcome even more lovely.

Er. I don't know if any of that is actually quotable, but if you'd like to use it go ahead.
suborbitalsuborbital on March 21st, 2006 08:54 pm (UTC)
*RAISES HAND* What she said.
░: god wouldn't take herintroductory on March 21st, 2006 05:27 am (UTC)
Like many of the above, I was rather disgusted by the idea of incest in other fandoms (HP, various anime/manga series). Growing up in a very traditional household, I viewed incest -- and slash, before I broke through that particular prejudice -- as a perversion of the way nature was supposed to be. I've been in fandom for quite some time now, though, so I'm able to take in the Narnia incest with perhaps a tad more maturity than I would have years ago.

That said, I only tolerate (because, truthfully, it does make a difference whether they're siblings or not) incest to a certain extent. I've never been able to bring myself to read fics with a strong physical aspect to them -- it's something not easily reconciled with the ideas of fraternal bonds.

Maybe this is all because I have a sister. But still, the less kissing and the more hugging and hand-holding and we'll-survive-this-together, the more I'm able to put aside my opinions and enjoy a nice platonic 'cest fic.

Good luck with your essay. :)